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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  March 3, 2011 10:00pm-12:00am EST

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michael is the golden globes. i saw him and he looked at me and he said, get your chapstick ready. so we're going to shoot that next summer, 2012 we're going to shoot that one. but i'm looking forward to it. two great roles for us. >> listen, thank you for all coming in. it's been most entertaining. matt, emily, thoanthony, john, s a great film. here's anderson cooper with "ac 360." good evening, everyone. tonight, president obama says it is time for moammar gadhafi to go. the u.s. military has now joined efforts to evacuate refugees from the border with tunisia. but gadhafi is hanging on, using the same weapons he has for the last four decades. terror and lies. for his own people, terror. new reports have kidnappings in tripoli, people suspected in taking part in demonstrations or talking to the media, taken from their homes, disappeared.
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as for the other weapon, lies. as always, we're keeping them honest. today, libyan authorities showed off what they say was a massive shipment of pills that they xer sented. they say al qaeda was trying to snuggle in 37 painkillers so they would join the fight against gadhafi. remember, this has been gadhafi's claim from the beginning. i asked a top government gadhafi spokesman about that claim on the program last night. as you'll notice, he's not interested in answering clear questions. the claim i find hardest to understand is libya's youth are given hallucinatory pills and bran waushed to attack. gadhafi said it was america first, now bin laden. what drugs are being used, specifically what hallucinatory pills? >> actually, the leader did not specifically accuse the united states of america. he really said that al qaeda,
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very highly trained individuals who now look more secular than the dwellers of the caves in afghanistan. >> i'm asking you what pills, what hallucinatory pills? >> we did indeed capture young people using these pills -- >> what pills? are you talking about meth amphetamine, ecstasy, lsd, what are you talking about? a few hours after that interview, the big drug bust by libyan authorities and the drug they claim being used is tramadol. the problem is tramadol is not a hallucinagenic drug. it's a painkiller used in hospitals. the two most common side effects are drowsiness and constipation. if this is what the libyan government was hoping would make its case, they need to find a
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new prescription. last night when i continued to press him, here's what he said. >> i'm not an expert. we are really now dealing with the matter from all sides. let me just -- >> wait, sir, let me just go on. i've got to ask this, because you're basing your entire argument, your leader is basing the entire -- his entire explanation, he says this every time on this hallucinatory pills. it seems to defy logic. you're saying a small band of terrorists have been able to manufacture, import, distribute huge quantities of hallucinatory pills across vast areas, hundreds of miles apart to various cities, and then have been able to continually drug tens of thousands of libyan young people so they will fight? does that make any sense to you at all? >> no, this is not the story. anderson, this is -- this is not the story we are putting forward. this is one element of the story. >> all right. so he's saying it's just one
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element. he sent on to say i was sensationalizing, focusing on one point. the truth, however, is completely unproved theory of gadhafi's is the one he and his son put forward all the time. take a look. >> translator: kids, 16 or 17 years old, they give them pills at night. they put hallucinatory pills in their drinks, their milk, their coffey and then tell them after they have taken the pills and say come on, go, attack. >> translator: there were many units we have uncovered, libyans, arabs, using drugs. children have been drugged. some of them were on drugs. they are giving them those pills. take the pills. the pills. those hallucination pills. those who offer pills to your children, arrest them. >> those are just some of the mentions of these pills.
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what makes gadhafi's al qaeda pill popping theory impossible to believe sit contradicts the other argument he and his government spokesman and son make, that gadhafi has made libya a bastion against al qaeda. >> libya is the only company free of al qaeda in the region. >> well, if that's true, how can you claim that al qaeda has been smuggling in all these pills, distributing them, infiltrating these coffee shops and drugging all these people, how can you claim that if you believe this gadhafi spokesman? >> libya is the only country free of al qaeda in the region. >> to sum up, they want you to believe that al qaeda, which does not exist in libya, is maintaining a major drug smuggling operation and at the same time recruiting and running a massive army of stoned kids killing troops and policemen while rampaging and tripping on pills that don't make you trip or rampage. if that's not a logic defying lie, i don't know what it is.
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they also continue to claim the government doesn't target civilians. pictures show otherwise. this is people leaving a mosque unarmed heading to join other protesters and being fired upon. [ gunfire ] another video, protesters in a funeral march, being fired upon. [ gunfire ] and here is an air strike yesterday in the desert outside of brega, about 250 people, libyans heading to brega to defend it from attack. our own ben wedeman was with them. >> reporter: we are outside the town of brega where this ongoing battle is happening. we watched this libyan air force plane flew overhead. i can tell you exactly what the target was, it was us. it was us and the people all around us, which was i would say about 250 individuals, most of them volunteer fighters getting
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ready to move ahead forward into brega to engage the libyan forces. so i guess, yeah, we were the target, nothing else. >> again, some of the people armed and belong to anti-government forces. the government claims they are al qaeda operatives and targeting ammunition dumps. ben wedeman says there may have been hard core islamists, but the vast majority are libyan civilians. we'll hear from a libyan doctor who has seen dozens of dead and wounded and says they are just young people who want freedom. first, i want to get the latest from nic robertson in tripoli and marie culvan from the london times. nic, a few hours from now in tripoli is going to be friday prayers. last friday we saw what happened. people were called to come out and protest after friday prayers. they did that, shots were fired
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and people were killed. we've seen multiple videos of that. is there an anticipation that people will come out on the streets in a few hours and protest? >> reporter: i talked to a man earlier this week who has been involved in some of the gadhafi protests here and he said this friday, today, they planned to gather in the mosque after the noontime prayers and this will be the safest way, he said, that they can protest. he said they believed the government wouldn't shoot on women. but he said now it's become the only way to voice their grievances with the government, because if they go out on the streets they'll get run off the streets. so i think we can see similar scenes. we've seen in tripoli tonight a tightening around the city. heavy armor, soldiers with bayonets on their weapons. the government is bracing itself for whatever may come, anderson. >> marie, i spoke with someone from the libyan opposition and
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asked him what he expected from any protest tomorrow. i want to play that for our viewers. >> we went to the green square, and we were attacked by gadhafi's battalions with live ammunition. they killed people. i spent with some people, including my sons, in hiding in the old town of tripoli. the viciousness the gadhafi regime is using against unarmed people would scare anybody. i think in some areas people will go out, maybe they're not going to go to the green square. but they will go out and it's not going to stop. so many people were killed and blood brings blood. >> blood brings blood. marie, do you think tomorrow is going to be a big test or a few hours is going to be a big test? >> i think a big test in several
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ways. when i spoke to gadhafi earlier this week, a bit what you were saying about the drugs, he said there was no army in libya and no protesters. we know there are both. people are much more frightened this time, because gadhafi's army or security forces, they are opening fire on protesters. the protesters from last week are scared. they are going to gather in the mosques. they are probably going to try to march on green square, but there could be an overwhelming show of force, because gadhafi knows they're going to try to do this, as well. >> marie, i was talking to fouad ajami before i went on air. he said he felt that in listening to gadhafi's speech yesterday, that gadhafi seemed different in a way. i've heard you say he seemed more focused to you yesterday. you've talked to him a lot over the years. >> reporter: well, it's hard to -- when you listen to gadhafi, it's hard to say he's
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focused at all. but he has his own coherency within his own mental universe. he spoke to the points he would make to the international world. tripoli streets are empty. and they could hear that this man plans to say -- i started to hear the wall of fear has descended on tripoli. people who spoke openly a week ago have now stopped speaking. he said, you will be serving europe as president and you will retire and i will still be leader of the revolution. he means to scare. >> nic, i talked to somebody today who was talking about people disappearing, being taken from their homes and actually security forces there looking for people who they had videotaped at last friday's prayers. had you heard those reports, have you been able to confirm any of that?
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any specific confirmation of that. just anecdotal information and from the gentleman who told me about the protest plans for today, and a couple of others i talked to on the streets that approached us, because they know we're international journalists. they've been very, very afraid to speak to us, because they're aware there are government officials close to us who are watching us. i'm in communication with other people who share those views. they've pretty much closed down on me, too. so the fear is real, and it's palpable. a gentleman i was talking to on the street, i could see in his eyes that he was shaking and wanted to say these things.
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i almost felt i shouldn't be listening but i thought no, it's my duty and he wants to do it and get this message out. it's a very, very real fear. >> marie, last time we talked you said you have it easier than nic, because you're able to go around perhaps a little bit more freely than nic is, who has probably watched pretty closely. have you heard those reports about people being taken from their homes and people disappearing and just a second ago when you said the fear here as kind of, you know, resurged, what do you attribute that to? >> reporter: well, i attribute it to, a, gadhafi's speech where he was -- the fact that he simply is still there. when i arrived in tripoli, it felt -- and it was palpable, it just felt like he's going to leave after 42 years, where we're going to be free of this
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man, of this oppression. he's still here. the capital has sort of returned to normal. that worries people. and also just bodies have come back. there's funerals. it rains at night. i've talked to people and seen doors smashed in. he's kind of doing both. he also said that young people can have free loans. put out the carrot. but at night, it's the stick and he's doing it in tandem. no one knows are they going to an army or police prison. it's a very, very insidious fear and the nervousness and the quiet on the streets, no one knows what will happen. but there is still a real determination that they can do it. again, i think tellingly, there's no leadership. >> it does seem, nic, if
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anything is to change in tripoli, it's going to have to come -- i mean, it seems if what you're saying is true and gadhafi seems to have -- be more secure perhaps in his position in tripoli in the last day or so, then whatever change is going to come may have to come from outside in terms of a force from benghazi or elsewhere, and that seems given their lack of organization difficult to imagine at this stage. >> reporter: it does. it seems the government has the upper hand. we were driving back from the border today and the government took us to the border to see the situation there. as we drove back, we were mobbed for about six kilometers of people driving, coming out, waving, chanting for gadhafi, people literally standing in the front of our bus, stopping us from moving.
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i said to one of the government officials with us, i said, you know, you talk about al qaeda giving out drugs to people. these people are going so crazy here on the roads, literally crazy in front of us. somebody is giving them pills. the official said back to me jokingly, but i think this shows us underneath what government officials say, he said yes, they've been given happy pills. of course, he was joking. this show ascertain element of the regime here that they know change is coming. so though there's perhaps not going to be the rebels marching on the capital any time soon, when the tide turns, i think we may see it turn. but, again, there are some very fanatical supporters, too, which is why the assessment is there is a potential bloody fight, as well. >> was that a rally you happened across or are you in a convoy that the government is bringing
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you -- i mean, how did they know you were going to be driving down that road? >> reporter: it was a road to the border, so we went down it, and there was one road back. so they knew we were coming back. the police worked to slow us down, to actually physically slow us and the crowds blocked us and government officials made sure we stopped and opened the doors and encouraged us to film it. the whole thing just gets out of hand very quickly. very wild. they were driving so dangerously down the road. children in the back of pickups, kids hanging out, 100 miles an hour next to us. they were going 100 miles an hour down the side of us on the right of the road with oncoming traffic. that's the mentality that any opposition will be up against and that's the mentality of the situation. >> marie, i'm way over time, but
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i'm interested in this, because the spokesman of the government keeps saying, well, anybody can come and look around and they're free to see whatever they want to see. is that the case for you? >> reporter: i think, you know, as i said last week, i can move a bit. the scene nic is describing happened on a smaller scale. i'm not sure it's so much real love for gadhafi as he would say, but if i'm going to be on camera, i better show i really care about him because they might come and think i'm not fervent enough of my support of him. if you tried to go somewhere they don't want you to go, it's made clear i had some colleagues try to go to the home of the man who was convicted in the lockerbie -- the downing of the lockerbie jet and has been released back here with cancer,
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he's still alive. they tried to go to his house and they were in prison for several hours. one of them had a pillow case over his head. so you can go anywhere, but what happens after you go there is up for grabs. that said, i don't see how libya can return to what it was before. this population has taimsed something that they really want. and you just have that dueality, that feeling, that real fear, but gosh, we love this freedom, those moments they had, especially being able to say something, to not have somebody looking over their shoulder that -- i don't think you can put that back in the box. >> marie colvin, nic robertson, thank you both. let us know what you think. we're on facebook or twitter. i'll be live tweeting throughout the hour. up next, president obama weighs in.
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>> colonel gadhafi needs to step down from power. and leave. that is good for his country. that is good for his people. it's the right thing to do. >> right thing to do, but what are his options if gadhafi clings to power? a panel joins us. and later who is the libyan opposition and what do they want? a possible leader is surfacing. the latest on that. ♪ i have clients say it's really hard to save for the future and they've come to a point where it's overwhelming.
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that helps block cholesterol absorption and has a delicious, buttery taste. make benecol part of your healthy lifestyle. after days of letting the secretaries of state take the lead, president obama today laid down his bottom line. >> colonel gadhafi needs to step down from power and leave. that is good for his country. it is good for his people. it's the right thing to do. those around him have to understand that violence that they perpetrate against innocent civilians will be monitored and they will be held accountable for it. >> the president also authorized airlifts to transport egyptian refugees trying to free libya and wants to make sure america
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has the full capacity to head off a crisis. supporters say the president has very good options. let's talk about it with jill dougherty, christopher hill, from the university of denver and professor fouad ajami. jill, the administration insisting all options are on the table. clearly from what secretary gates and hillary clinton have said, there doesn't seem to be any appetite for implementing a no-fly zone. >> yeah, so that raising the issue what is the effect of this, the limbo of not using it yet and maybe never, who knows? on the one hand it could give moammar gadhafi the idea that he has basically carte blanche within the boarders of his country to do whatever he wants. let's say he carries out repressions from the air. that could turn people against him within his country. but then it also could undermine
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the belief that those people have that the west and outside intervention could ever come. that they would -- that the west and others would follow through. so it's a problem. >> fouad, what do you make of secretary gates and clinton? >> secretary gates is playing the scrooge in the story, if you will. he doesn't even name libya as a country. he says a third country. he's talking about the wars in afghanistan and iraq. we know that secretary gates opposed both wars. so the message he's putting out is look, this is a very difficult operation. i think i'm using his words, but this would be a big operation in a big country. >> it's not just instituting a no-fly zone, you have to take out anti-aircraft batteries on the ground. >> that's right. and he has insisted and put the word through the send of cintcom, that this is a war. if you want to enforce a no-fly zone, you are engaged in a war. and then you have secretary
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clinton, who is pouring cold water on the poor people in benghazi. she says, there's a lot of uncertainty about the opportunism of people who claim to be leaders right now. if people are fighting for their freedom and you're second guessing them and calling them opportunists, that's not exactly the right message to send. >> ambassador hill, what do you make of the message being sent? >> it was very significant that the president got up and said very clearly that gadhafi is well passed his shelf life and has to go. so i think the u.s. has a very clear policy that we want to see the guy gone. the second question is how do you do it? a lot of people want to see him move into a no-fly zone, but i think the president has appropriately laid out the policy. we want him gone. secondly is working on humanitarian issues. and thirdly, i suspect there's a lot of this going on right now, is the diplomatic strategy to work with allies, to work with russians and other stake holders and see what can be done to get
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that policy implemented. that is get the guy gone. >> fouad? >> i don't know what ambassador hill, who is an accomplished hill means, by stake holders. the rupgs russians have said a no-fly zone, they are not ready to commit. you have turkey that's dubious about any intervention against moammar gadhafi. i think the ambassador is right. the president is testing the waters, and he's going to respond. i think the response of the president is going to be related to the catastrophe that will unfold in benghazi if this thing gets worse on the ground for the libyans. i think then the president may have to do things he really don't want to do all along. >> what about that, ambassador hill? if gadhafi uses the air force more aggressively against those forces on the road outside benghazi or even in benghazi, or goes to wipe out the forces who are badly armed, does that change the dynamic for the administration?
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>> well, i suspect it could. i mean, one of the big questions you have to look at, is this a long-term scenario? is this something that's going to go on and on, months, years? that's kind of one response. so if we press the thing that somehow gadhafi can be pushed over. i think it's very important, though, for the administration to work with countries like russia. after all, the administration does not want to take actions without actions that are not supported in a u.n. security council resolution. so they've got to do some work with the russians. at the end of the day, they may not bring them along. at a certain point, no one can argue the administration hasn't tried to work this diplomatically. so i think it's very important to lay out this diplomatic track and that's what the president started today. >> jill, besides the no-fly zone, are there other viable options for the administration? >> depends on how you define
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viable. one would be to arm the rebels, arm the opposition. you could also give them anti-aircraft capability. you know, anderson, we're back to that same issue, which is gates and clinton still say it's unclear who the opposition are, what are their aims, and what's their competency? so that i think is the essential thing. they don't know totally what the rebels really want. >> and we're hearing information that in a few hours the group in benghazi that set themselves up may try to make an announcement about organizing to address some of these concerns. >> look, if we don't want to intervene, if we don't want to help them, we will raise the bar. there is a national council in benghazi, 30 prominent libyan leaders. we know what they're about, the former justice ministers, lawyers, justices, et cetera, to the extent this country has a professional class. what do they want? freedom from this man.
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freedom from this tyrant. and the problem with this kind of stalemate is, remember, the stockholm syndrome. gadhafi has been the jailer of these people for a long time. if he suggests to them that no help is on the way, that no cavalry is coming to the rescue and the americans are not comes and the europeans are plagued -- >> marie colvin was saying that's a lot of people in tripoli were interpreting his message yesterday, that it put a chill through them. >> absolutely. we were talking before we got on air. i listened to the speech, i listened to it and you could see the message. the message is, you folks have rebelled and you are alone. it's you and i, the people of libya. if we maintain this, if this holds, i am very, very worried about the prospects of this successful revolt in libya. >> ambassador hill, do you think
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the experience in iraq has made any intervention tougher to sell? >> to be sure, we went into iraq with a very dubious understanding of the situation on the ground. so i think there is some concern about whether refugee reports are entirely accurate in a sort of macro sense, and i think that does go back to iraq. but i think what the president is trying to do, is to try to build diplomatic support and see where we can go with this. and i think it would be highly problematic if he just jumped into something and had all the europeans opposing them and the russians and others opposing him. i don't think that's sustainable and i'm not sure it would achieve the objectives. if gadhafi had spent half as much time caring about his people as he does holding onto power, we wouldn't be in this situation. but this is someone tenacious in wanting to hold onto power. so we have to respect that. >> final thought?
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>> lyndon johnson once said don't tell a man to go to hell unless you send him there. we're playing for time. it's understandable. we want to see how it unfolds. but i fear that the libyans are alone. people have not embraced the revolt. they haven't accepted the legitimacy and the meaning of it. >> fouad ajami, jill dougherty, ambassador christopher hill, thank you very much. interesting discussion. still ahead, inside mizrata where opposition control much of the city's center. you'll hear from a doctor in that town who paints a very different picture. plus, as jill dougherty mentioned, who are the libyans that want gadhafi to go? opposition is starting to take key steps as they organize their ranks. a look at that ahead. [ thunder rumbles ] [ male announcer ] the future of mobile computing starts now. the new motorola xoom. powered by the latest android technology
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u.s. military aircraft and french charter jets have joined the effort to evacuate tens of thousands of people trying to get out of libya. here's what becky anderson found at the border with tunisia today. >> reporter: they may have got some food, but very few people have got any accommodation. there's been 100,000 people over this border since february 20th. they've got some 20,000 here, and as far as the eye can see, the u.n. has set up accommodations further down the road, but they have very little at this point and they are still getting, they say, some 10,000 a day coming through. >> all together, some 180,000 refugees have crossed into tunisia and egypt from libya.
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the u.n. is saying the situation is nearing a crisis. the bloodshed inside libya continues. tonight, the city of mizrata sits on the coast between tripoli and sirte, gadhafi's hometown. earlier, i talked to a doctor in mizrata. it's not safe for him to use his name, but he wanted to tell us what he was seeing and dealing with. how many people have you treated since this began? how many dead have you seen, how many wounded in mizrata? >> right now in mizrata, we treated more than 300 injured shooted in the head and the chest, and around 40 persons were martyred. >> the majority of the people you're seeing have been shot in the head and chest? >> yeah, yeah. more than 90 persons were
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shooted in the head and chest, and the murdered persons shooted in the head and chest, as well, decapitated patients and patients without parts, you know. >> you also heard that people are being kidnapped in mizrata. >> yeah, yeah. we heard about kidnapped persons. they are very young persons. even under 18. they kidnapped them just to take them somewhere. they are kidnapping anybody they can. >> let me ask you, saif gadhafi, moammar gadhafi's son, says that in mizrata, the problem is that the city is being held hodge by 40 to 50 armed gunmen and that essentially the population of mizrata, nearly half a million
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people, are essentially being held hostage by groups like al qaeda. when you hear that -- >> no, never. these persons, they don't know what is al qaeda. they are young. they are university students and teachers and they don't know what's al qaeda. just they hear about these things from the tv. it's something really silly. never have we seen anybody with al qaeda or anything. >> so your city is not being held hostage by gunmen? >> normal persons, university students, they protest against what's happening in benghazi. >> let me ask you this, can your city hold on if gadhafi forces attack in great number, with mizrata hold on, can it repel the attack? >> yeah, we are doing now.
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we are holding our city. we are trying to protect our city, all of them with our resources which we have, and the solidarity of everybody. we are doing our job in the hospital and trying to treat everybody. this morning, they shoot at our ambulances. one of them exploded and the other one just shooted, and hopefully we can save our personnel. many time they shoot at our doctors. even in the first days some patients shooted in the ambulances. >> one of the claims that gadhafi and his son keep making is that al qaeda or groups have handed out hallucinogenic pills. >> never. >> and now today they are claiming they intercepted a
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shipment and it's a pill called tramadol, which is a painkiller. does that make sense to you? >> something is very silly, you know. >> it's a joke? >> this is a joke between all the persons here. they don't know what's tramadol. it's not available. never. the hospital, even in special hands in the doctors, you know, who specializes in pain management, nobody, they don't know. >> so you haven't seen any young people being drugged by al qaeda or by anybody else? >> never. i can guaranty this 100%. 1,000%. believe me, never. >> doctor, continue your work and stay safe. thank you for talking with us. >> thank you. thanks indeed. >> a doctor in the town of mizrata. so who is the opposition in libya? forces on the ground say they're willing to die for the cause.
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they're young, enthusiastic. there's certainly a lack of structure. that could be changing with the expected announcement of a new national council, including military and political branches. we'll explain that ahead. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions.
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a lot of people have been asking who is the opposition in libya. it's a complicated question in a country divided into about 140 tribes. on the ground, the opposition is young, enthusiastic. that's what we've seen in benghazi and mizrata.
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here's what one man told ben wedeman today in brega. >> translator: we'll live free, we'll die free. we'll die as martyrs. we'll fight to the last bullet, to our last drop of flood and god willing, victory will be ours. >> the opposition, the question what a future libyan government could look like is a work in progress. there are some key steps we've heard in the works. we're hearing that the members of a transitional national council could be named as soon as tomorrow. representing people from all over libya. joining us live, senior national correspondent ben wedeman and in washington, joining us again is a journalist and middle east expert. he says gadhafi labeled him an enemy of the state years ago and he's written about it for the dailybeast.com where he is a contribute for. ben, first of all from you, and i know we woke you up early in benghazi, so i appreciate you've had a long day of reporting already. how -- who is the opposition
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from what you can see and how organized are they on the ground? >> reporter: well, we're no longer in benghazi, anderson. the opposition, it depends on where you are. for instance in benghazi, in the courthouse, which is the nerve center for the opposition, you see an amazing array of people. lawyers, judges, human rights activists, businessmen who have all sort of come together to try to organize the new libya. but what you're seeing increasingly is also figures from the old regime, the gadhafi regime, the former justice minister, the former interior minister. people have the security services who have defected and there's a palpable tension between the people who previously had nothing to do with politics, who just stayed in their careers, in their fields, and these people from
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the gadhafi regime. there's some real tensions between them, some real distrust. in the field, when you're talking to the guys with the guns, the fighters, an odd collection of people. a lot of people who have been in the military before, a lot of libyans who have come back. i met a man from norway who has dual citizenship who's joined the fight. because he feels it's his duty to come back. so the opposition is a real hodgepodge of people who it's hard to see at this point how they're all going to get along in a single government. but they're certainly making an effort. >> i want to read you what hillary clinton said. she said i think it's important to recognize there's a great deal of uncertainty about the opportunism of people claiming to be leaders right now. you're hearing from your sources in libya that tomorrow a transitional national council is going to be named. what does that mean?
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>> i think what it means is they already agreed on who should be the head of this transitional -- national transitional council and the person assisting him. these are two names, the former justice minister, and the second person is the second man. and tomorrow they try to name some of them, because the total number of this council is around 30 people. ten of them are from tripoli. they will not be mentioned because due to -- for their security and safety, because they are in that region. and the rest are from benghazi, i believe, and the rest are from the other parts of the country. >> so what about this tension ben was talking about between folks who haven't been involved in the government at all and these people who were very close to gadhafi for many, many years and seemed fine with whatever he
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did. now all of a sudden switching sides. how does that tension get resolved? >> i think they try to get along. i think it's very important -- the sources i talk to, some of them are advising the council, feel that everybody should be included. everything should be inclusive, because all the figures, regardless if they came late or early, all of them they have to find a way to get together to form this council and to form a new representative government that is transitional. this is a council, it's not a government. but it's a step toward future government in libya where once it's all liberated. there is a tension. some as ben said, that they just feel that who came late and they have some blood on their hands. some are concerned about that. but the people that you
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mentioned, including the former justice minister, he's been somebody who is very well respected for a while in libya. >> ben, in terms of the possibility of a force from benghazi reaching tripoli some 600 miles away, you've been out there and seen them in the field. how likely is that? >> reporter: it's unlikely, although it's not all together impossible. first of all, as you mentioned, it's a very long way from this place. from the east to the west. and second of all, logistically, they're just not that well enough organized to push that far ahead. even for the united states army, to move 1,000 kilometers is a huge logistical feat. for the libyan irregulars that we have here, that would be almost harder. you do have a lot of enthusiasm. you do have the desire to do it.
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but what we're seeing is that the effort for instance to defend brega was very much a case of people hearing on their cell phones, on the radio, seeing on tv that the town was under attack. they get their friends together and whatever weapons they can find. they jump into a pickup truck or a car and they just drive down the road. and then attack where they can attack. what is clear on the front lines, however, what we saw today was there does seem to be a command and control structure emerging. there do seem to be members, former members of the libyan army who are -- who understand exactly how you organize a group of men to launch an attack, how to get them together, how to communicate, how to move them, how to feed them, which of course is critical. so going all the way to tripoli, that's going to be something of a feat. moving down the road 10, 20, 40,
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50, 60 kilometers is very likely at this point. >> ben wedeman, stay safe. thank you for joining us. a lot more happening around the world, including new hope for the family of a retired fbi agent who disappeared in iran four years ago. plus, the miracle puppy who was euthanized came back to life. incredible details, next. [ male announcer ] how can power consumption in china,
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basic. preferred. at meineke i have options on oil changes. and now i get free roadside assistance with preferred or supreme. my money. my choice. my meineke. let's get the latest on some of the other stories we're following. isha sesay has a "360" news and business bulletin. the u.s. government says there is new evidence that
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former fbi agent robert levinson is alive and being held in southwest asia. he disappeared during a business trip in 2007. a senior diplomatic official said a fresh round of discussions between the u.s. and iran is underway. german authorities say the man accused in yesterday's deadly shooting of two american troops in frankfurt was a recently radicalized muslim. the 21-year-old suspect claims to have acted alone. in wisconsin, police are searching for the owner of dozens of rounds of live ammunition found today outside the state capital building. meantime, a judge has ruled that demonstrators may no longer sleep inside the capital. where they've been catching out for three weeks to protest a controversial budget repair bill. u.s. stocks had their best day in three months, fueled by a strong unemployment claims report and a modest drop in energy prices. the dow added 191 points.
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anderson, meet wally, aka miracle dog. the miracle is, wally and his litter mates were left outside an oklahoma animal shelter where they were euthanized, then put in a dumpster. as you can see, 3-month-old wally is obviously a survivor. >> wow. we should point out the wisconsin story, we call it a budget repair bill. certainly the folks protesting say this has nothing to do with the budget. they say this is about union busting and trying to destroy collective bargaining rights. >> important point. >> isha, have a great night. a lot more ahead at the top of the hour, starting with libya's campaign of terror and lies. and demonstrations may take place in a few hours. details ahead. ♪
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good evening, everyone. tonight, president obama says it is time for moammar gadhafi to go. the u.s. military has now joined efforts to evacuate refugees from the overcrowded border with tunisia. but gadhafi is hanging on, using the same weapons he has for the last four decades. terror and lies. for his own people, terror. new reports of kidnappings in tripoli, people suspected in taking part in demonstrations or talking to the media, taken from their homes, disappeared. as for the other weapon, lies. as always, we're keeping them honest. today, libyan authorities showed
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off what they say was a massive shipment of pills that they intercepted. they say al qaeda was trying to snuggle in 37 million pain killers to aler the minds of young people so they would join the fight against gadhafi. remember, this has been gadhafi's claim from the beginning. the most bizarre perhaps of all his claims. i asked a top government gadhafi spokesman about that claim on the program last night. as you'll notice, he's not interested in answering specific questions about this pill-popping theory. the claim i find hardest to understand is libya's youth are being given hallucinatory pills and then brainwashed to attack. gadhafi said it was america first, now he says it's bin laden. what drugs are being used, specifically what hallucinatory pills? >> actually, the leader did not specifically accuse the united states of america. he really said that al qaeda, very highly trained individuals
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who now look more secular than the dwellers of the caves in afghanistan. they were trainers and wear jeans -- >> i'm asking you what pills, what hallucinatory pills? >> we did indeed capture young people using these pills -- >> what pills? i'm asking. are you talking about methamphetamine, ecstasy, lsd, what are you talking about? he couldn't answer that question last night. now today, suddenly a few hours after that interview, the big drug bust by libyan authorities and the drug they claim being used is tramadol. the problem is tramadol is not a hallucinogenic drug. it's a moderate to severe painkiller used in hospitals. the two most common side effects are drowsiness and constipation. if this is what the libyan government was hoping would make its case, they need to find a new prescription. last night when i continued to press gadhafi's spokesman on what drugs his boss was talking about, here's what he said.
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>> i'm not an expert. we are really now dealing with the matter from all sides. let me just -- >> wait, sir, let me just go on. i've got to ask this, because you're basing your entire argument, your leader is basing the entire -- his entire explanation, he says this every time on these hallucinatory pills. it seems to defy logic. you're saying a small band of terrorists have been able to manufacture, import, distribute huge quantities of hallucinatory pills across vast areas, hundreds of miles apart to various cities, and then have been able to continually drug tens of thousands of libyan young people so they will fight? does that make any sense to you at all? >> no, this is not the story. anderson, this is -- this is not the story we are putting forward. this is one element of the story. >> all right. so he's saying it's just one element. he sent on to say i was sensationalizing, focusing on
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one minor point his leader had mentioned as part of a much larger explanation. the truth, however, is completely unproved theory of gadhafi's is the one he and his son put forward all the time. take a look. >> translator: kids, 16 or 17 years old, they give them pills at night. they put hallucinatory pills in their drinks, their milk, their coffee, their nescalf fi, and then they tell them after they have taken the pills, and say come on, go attack. >> translator: there were many units we have uncovered, libyans, arabs, using drugs. children have been drugged. some of them were on drugs. they are giving them those pills. take the pills. the pills. those hallucination pills. those who offer pills to your children, arrest them. >> those are just some of the mentions of these pills. what makes gadhafi's al qaeda pill popping theory impossible to believe is that it contradicts the other central
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argument he and his government spokesman and his son make, that gadhafi has made libya a bastion against al qaeda. >> libya is the only country free of al qaeda in the region. >> well, if that's true, how can you claim that al qaeda has been smuggling in all these pills, distributing them, infiltrating these coffee shops and drugging all these people, how can you claim that if you believe this gadhafi spokesman? >> libya is the only country free of al qaeda in the region. >> to sum up, gadhafi and his son and spokesman want you to believe that al qaeda, which does not exist in libya, is maintaining a major drug smuggling operation and at the same time recruiting and running a massive army of stoned kids killing troops and policemen while rampaging and tripping on pills that don't make you trip or rampage. if that's not a logic defying lie, i don't know what is. they also continue to claim the government doesn't target civilians. pictures show otherwise.
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this is video from last friday, people leaving a mosque unarmed heading to join other protesters and being fired upon. [ gunfire ] another video, protesters in a funeral march, being fired upon. and here is an air strike yesterday in the desert outside of brega. the only target within miles, about 250 people. libyans heading to brega to defend it from attack. our own ben wedeman was with them. >> reporter: we are outside the town of brega where this ongoing battle is happening. we watched this libyan air force plane flew overhead. i can tell you exactly what the target was, it was us. it was us and the people all around us, which was i would say about 250 individuals, most of them volunteer fighters getting ready to move ahead forward into brega to engage the libyan
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forces. so i guess, yeah, we were the target, nothing else. >> again, some of the people armed and belong to anti-government forces. the government claims they are al qaeda operatives and they're only targeting ammunition dumps. there were no ammunition dumps where that bomb fell, only people. ben wedeman says there may have been hard core islamists, but the vast majority are libyan civilians, untrained and poorly equipped. we'll hear from a libyan doctor in another town, a doctor who has seen dozens of dead and wounded and says they are just young people who want freedom. first, i want to get the latest from nic robertson in tripoli and also with him is marie colvin of "the sunday times" in london. nic, a few hours from now in tripoli is going to be friday prayers. and after that last friday we saw what happened. people were called to come out and protest after friday prayers. they did that, shots were fired and people were killed. we've seen multiple videos of that. is there an anticipation that
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people will come out on the streets in a few hours and protest? >> reporter: i talked to a man earlier this week who has been involved in some of the gadhafi protests here and he said this friday, today, they planned to gather in the mosque after the noontime prayers and this will be the safest way, he said, that they can protest. he said they believed the government wouldn't shoot on women. but he said now it's become the only way to voice their grievances with the government, because if they go out on the streets they'll get run off the streets. so i think we can see similar scenes. we've seen in tripoli tonight a tightening of security around the city. heavy armor, soldiers with bayonets on their weapons. the government is bracing itself for whatever may come, anderson. >> marie, i spoke with someone from the libyan opposition and asked him what he expected from any protest tomorrow. i want to play that for our viewers.
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says was at the protest of the 20th and 21st. we went to the green square, and we were attacked by gadhafi's battalions with live ammunition. they killed people. i spent with some people, including my sons, in hiding in the old town of tripoli. the viciousness the gadhafi regime is using against unarmed people would scare anybody. i think in some areas people will go out, maybe they're not going to go to the green square. but they will go out and it's not going to stop. so many people were killed and blood brings blood. >> blood brings blood. marie, do you think tomorrow is going to be a big test or a few hours is going to be a big test? >> reporter: i think a big test in several ways. when i spoke to gadhafi earlier
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this week, a lit bit like what you were saying about the drugs, he said there was no army in libya and no protesters. we know there are both. people are much more frightened this time, because gadhafi's army or security forces, they are opening fire on protesters. the protesters from last week who i spoke to are scared. they are going to gather in the mosques. they are probably going to try to march on green square, but there could be an overwhelming show of force, because gadhafi knows they're going to try to do this, as well. >> marie, i was talking to fouad ajami before i went on air. he said he felt that in listening to gadhafi's speech yesterday, that gadhafi seemed different in a way. i've heard you say he seemed more focused to you yesterday. you've talked to him a lot over the years. >> reporter: well, it's hard to -- when you listen to gadhafi, it's hard to say he's focused at all. but he has his own coherency within his own mental universe. he spoke to the points he would
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make to the libyans and to the international world. tripoli streets are empty. people are home listening to him on television. and they could hear that this man plans to say -- i started to hear the wall of fear has descended on tripoli. people who were speaking openly to me a week ago have now stopped speaking. the way gadhafi ended the speech sent a chill through everyone. he said, you will be serving europe as president and you will retire and i will still be leader of the revolution. he means to scare. >> nic, i talked to somebody today who was talking about people disappearing, being taken from their homes and actually security forces there looking for people who they had videotaped at last friday's prayers. had you heard those reports, have you been able to confirm any of that? >> reporter: no, we don't have
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any specific confirmation of that. just anecdotal information and from the gentleman who told me about the protest plans for today, and a couple of others i talked to on the streets that approached us, because they know we're international journalists. they really hope we can get their story out and their message out. in some ways they feel emboldened by the fact that we're here and we're doing that. they've been very, very afraid to speak to us, because they're aware there are government officials close to us who are watching us. i'm in communication with other people who share those views. they've pretty much closed down on me, too. so the fear is real, and it's palpable. i felt painful and sorry with the people i was talking to on the street, because i could see that they wanted to say these things. i almost felt i shouldn't be listening but i thought no, it's my duty and he wants to do it and get this message out.
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it's a very, very real fear. >> thank you both and stay safe. be careful. let us know what you think on facebook or twitter at anderson cooper. i'll be live tweeting throughout this hour during commercial breaks. up next, president obama weighs in. >> colonel gadhafi needs to step down from power and leave. that is good for his country. it is good for his people. it's the right thing to do. >> right thing to do, but what are his options if gadhafi clings to panel? a panel joins us. and later, who is the libyan opposition and what do they want? they're starting to organize. tonight, a possible leader is surfacing. the latest on that. nobody in my family ever had a heart attack.
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after days of letting the secretaries of state take the lead, president obama today laid down his bottom line. >> colonel gadhafi needs to step down from power and leave. that is good for his country. it is good for his people. it's the right thing to do. those around him have to
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understand that violence that they perpetrate against innocent civilians will be monitored and they will be held accountable for it. >> the president also authorized airlifts to transport egyptian refugees trying to flee libya and wants to make sure america has the full capacity to head off a humanitarian crisis. some critics say the crisis is already here. supporters say the president has very little good options. let's talk about it with jill dougherty, christopher hill, from the university of denver and professor fouad ajami. jill, the administration insisting all options are on the table. clearly from what secretary gates and hillary clinton have said, there doesn't seem to be any appetite for implementing a no-fly zone. >> yeah, so that raises the issue what is the effect of this, the limbo of not using it yet and maybe never, who knows?
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on the one hand it could give moammar gadhafi the idea that he has basically carte blanche within the borders of his country to do whatever he wants. let's say he carries out repressions from the air. that could turn people against him within his country. but then it also could undermine the belief that those people have that the west and outside intervention could ever come. that they would -- that the west and others would follow through. so it's a problem. >> fouad, what do you make of secretary gates and clinton? >> secretary gates is playing the scrooge in the story, if you will. he doesn't even name libya as a country. he says a third country. he's talking about the wars in afghanistan and the war in iraq. we know that secretary gates opposed both wars. so the message he's putting out is look, this is a very difficult operation. i think i'm using his words, but this would be a big operation in a big country. >> it's not just instituting a no-fly zone, you have to take
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out anti-aircraft batteries on the ground. >> that's right. and he has insisted and put the word through the head of centcom, that this is a war. if you want to enforce a no-fly zone, you are engaged in a war. so the steaks have escalated. and then you have secretary clinton, who is pouring cold water on the poor people in benghazi. she says, there's a lot of uncertainty about the motives and opportunism of people who claim to be leader right now. if people are fighting for their freedom and you're second guessing them and calling them opportunists, that's not exactly the right message to send. >> ambassador hill, what do you make of the message being sent? >> first of all, i think it was very significant that the president got up and said very clearly that gadhafi is well hassed his shelf life and has got to go. so i think the u.s. has a very clear policy that we want to see the guy gone. the second question is how do you do it? a lot of people want to see him move into a no-fly zone, but i think the president has
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appropriately laid out the policy. we want him gone. secondly is working on humanitarian issues. and thirdly, i suspect there's a lot of this going on right now, is the diplomatic strategy to work with allies, to work with russians and other stakeholders and see what can be done to get that policy implemented. that is get the guy gone. >> fouad? >> i don't know what ambassador hill, who is an accomplished diplomat means by stakeholders. the russians have said a no-fly zone, they are not really ready to commit to us. you have a key country like turkey in the neighborhood that's dubious about any intervention against moammar gadhafi. i think the ambassador is right. the president is testing the waters, and he's going to respond. i think the response of the president is going to be related to the catastrophe that will unfold in benghazi if this thing gets worse on the ground for the libyans. i think then the president may
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have to do things he really don't want to do all along. >> what about that, ambassador hill? if gadhafi uses the air force more aggressively against those forces on the road outside benghazi or even in benghazi, or goes to wipe out the forces who are badly armed, does that change the dynamic for the administration? >> well, i suspect it could. i mean, one of the big questions you have to look at, is this a long-term scenario? is this something that's going to go on and on, months, years? that's kind of one response. so if we press the thing that somehow gadhafi can be pushed over. i think it's very important, though, for the administration to work with countries like russia. after all, the administration does not want to take actions without actions that are not supported in a u.n. security council resolution. so they've got to do some work with the russians. at the end of the day, they may not bring them along.
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at a certain point, no one can argue the administration hasn't tried to work this diplomatically. so i think it's very important to lay out this diplomatic track and that's what the president started today. >> jill, besides the no-fly zone, are there other viable options for the administration? >> depends on how you define viable. one would be to arm the rebels, arm the opposition. you could also give them anti-aircraft capability. you know, anderson, we're back to that same issue, which is gates and clinton still say it's unclear who the opposition are, what are their aims, and what's their competency? so that i think is the essential thing. they don't know totally what the rebels really want. >> and we're hearing information that in a few hours the group in benghazi that set themselves up may try to make an announcement about organizing to address some of these concerns. >> look, if we don't want to
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intervene, if we don't want to help them, we will raise the bar. there is a national council in benghazi, 30 prominent libyan leaders. we know what they're about, the former justice ministers, lawyers, professors, et cetera, to the expend this country has a professional class, this is the professional class. what do they want? freedom from this man. freedom from this tyrant. and the problem with this kind of stalemate is, remember, the stockholm syndrome. gadhafi has been the jailer of these people for a long time. if he suggests to them that no help is on the way, that no cavalry is coming to the rescue and that they are fighting alone, that the arabs can't help them, and of course, the americans are not coming and the europeans are plagued by gadhafi to perfection, at come point -- >> marie colvin was saying that's a lot of people in tripoli were interpreting his message yesterday, that it put a chill through them. >> absolutely. we were talking before we got on air. i listened to the speech, i listened to it and you could see the message.
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the message is, you folks have rebelled and you are alone. it's you and i, the people of libya. if we maintain this, if this holds, i am very, very worried about the prospects of this successful revolt in libya. >> ambassador hill, do you think the experience in iraq has made any intervention tougher to sell? >> to be sure, we went into iraq with a very dubious understanding of the situation on the ground. so i think there is some concern about whether refugee reports are entirely accurate in a sort of macro sense, any gray type of reports are accurate, and i think that does go back to iraq. but i think what the president is trying to do, is to try to build diplomatic support and see where we can go with this. and i think it would be highly problematic if he just jumped into something and had all the europeans on his -- opposing him
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and the russians and others opposing him. i don't think that's sustainable and i'm not sure it would achieve the objectives. if gadhafi had spent half as much time caring about his people as he does holding onto power, we wouldn't be in this situation. but this is someone tenacious in wanting to hold onto power. so we have to respect that. and figure out how to deal with it. the policy is clear, we want the guy gone. >> final thought? >> lyndon johnson once said don't tell a man to go to hell unless you intend to send him there. if we want to send gadhafi to hell, we need a coherent strategy and thus far we don't. we're playing for time. it's understandable. we want to see how it unfolds. but i fear that the libyans are alone. people have not embraced the revolt. they haven't accepted the legitimacy and the meaning of it. >> fouad ajami, jill dougherty, ambassador christopher hill, thank you very much. interesting discussion. still ahead, inside mizrata where opposition forces control much of the city's center but not the outskirts. you'll hear from a doctor in that town who paints a very different picture. plus, as jill dougherty mentioned, who are the libyans that want gadhafi to go? opposition is starting to take
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u.s. military aircraft and french charter jets have joined the effort to evacuate tens of thousands of people trying to get out of libya. many of them foreign workers. here's what becky anderson found at the border with tunisia today. >> reporter: they may have got some food, but very few people have got any accommodation. there's been 100,000 people over this border since february 20th. they've got some 20,000 here, and as far as the eye can see, the u.n. has set up accommodations further down the road, but they have very little at this point and they are still getting, they say, some 10,000 a day coming through. >> all together, some 180,000
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refugees have crossed into tunisia and egypt from libya. the u.n. is saying the situation is quickly nearing a crisis. the bloodshed inside libya continues. tonight, the city of mizrata sits on the coast between tripoli and sirte, gadhafi's hometown. while opposition forces control the center of mizrata, militias loyal to gadhafi control parts of the outskirts and are preventing medical supplies from getting in. earlier, i talked to a doctor in mizrata. it's not safe for him to use his name, but he wanted to tell us what he was seeing and dealing with. how many people have you treated since this began? how many dead have you seen, how many wounded in mizrata? >> right now in mizrata, we treated more than 300 injured shooted in the head and the chest, and around 40 persons were murdered. >> the majority of the people you're seeing have been shot in the head and chest? >> yeah, yeah.
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more than 90 persons were shooted in the head and chest, and the murdered persons shooted in the head and chest, as well, decapitated patients and patients without parts, you know. >> you're saying they were shot with large caliber weapons? >> yeah. >> you also heard that people are being kidnapped in mizrata. >> yeah, yeah. we heard about kidnapped persons. they are very young persons. even under 18. they kidnapped them just to take them somewhere. they are kidnapping anybody they can. >> let me ask you, saif gadhafi, moammar gadhafi's son, says that in mizrata, the problem is that the city is being held hostage by 40 to 50 armed gunmen and
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that essentially the population of mizrata, nearly half a million people, are essentially being held hostage by groups like al qaeda. when you hear that -- >> no, never. these persons, they don't know what is al qaeda. they are young. they are university students and teachers and they don't know what's al qaeda. just they hear about these things from the tv. it's something really silly. never have we seen anybody with al qaeda or anything. >> so your city is not being held hostage by gunmen? >> normal persons, university students, they protest against what's happening in benghazi. just they wanted to stop the bloody crime in benghazi. >> let me ask you this, can your city hold on if gadhafi forces
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attack in great number, can mizrata hold on, can it repel the attack? >> yeah, we are doing now. we are holding our city. we are trying to protect our city, all of them with our resources which we have, and the solidarity of everybody. we are doing our job in the hospital and trying to treat everybody. this morning, they shoot at our ambulances. one of them exploded and the other one just shooted, and hopefully we can save our personnel. many time they shoot at our doctors. even in the first days some patients shooted in the ambulances. >> one of the claims that gadhafi and his son keep making is that al qaeda or groups have handed out hallucinogenic pills. >> never. >> and now today they are
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claiming that the pills, that they intercepted a shipment and it's a pill called tramadol, which is a painkiller. does that make any sense to you? >> something is very silly, you know. it's just a joke between all the persons here. >> it's a joke? >> this is a joke between all the persons here. they don't know what's tramadol. it's not available. never. it's not available to everybody, it's limited. the hospital, even in special hands in the doctors, you know, who specializes in pain management, nobody, they don't know. they are very alert. >> so you haven't seen any young people being drugged by al qaeda or by anybody else? young people on hallucinogenic pills? >> never. i can guaranty this 100%. 1,000%. believe me, never. >> doctor, continue your work and stay safe. thank you for talking with us. >> thank you. thanks indeed. >> a doctor in the town of mizrata. so who is the opposition in
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libya? forces on the ground say they're willing to die for the cause. they're young, enthusiastic. there's certainly a lack of structure. that could be changing with the expected announcement of a new national council, including military and political branches. we'll explain that ahead. ht, gluttony-- a farewell long awaited. good night, stuffy. >> ( yawning ) >> good night, outdated. >> ( click ) >> good night, old luxury and all of your wares. good night, bygones everywhere. >> ( engine revs ) >> good morning, illumination. good morning, innovation. good morning, unequaled inspiration. >> ( heartbeats ) [ male announcer ] a chicken coop: the unlikely birthplace of a fundamental idea. it's where ethel percy andrus found a retired teacher living because she could afford nothing else. ethel couldn't ignore the clear need for health and financial security. and it inspired her to found aarp.
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a lot of people have been asking who is the opposition in libya. it's a complicated question in a country divided into about 140 tribes. further subdivided into clans. on the ground, the opposition is young, enthusiastic. that's what we've seen in benghazi and mizrata. here's what one man told ben wedeman today in brega. >> translator: we'll live free,
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we'll die free. we'll die as martyrs. we'll fight to the last bullet, to our last drop of blood and god willing, victory will be ours. >> the opposition, the question what a future libyan government could look like is a work in progress. there are some key steps we've heard in the works. we're hearing that the members of a transitional national council could be named as soon as tomorrow. representing people from all over libya. joining us live, senior national correspondent ben wedeman and in washington, joining us again is a journalist and middle east north africa expert who has worked for the u.s. state department. he says gadhafi labeled him an enemy of the state years ago and he's written about it for the dailybeast.com where he is a contributor. ben, first of all from you, and i know we woke you up early in benghazi, so i appreciate you've had a long day of reporting already. how -- who is the opposition from what you can see and how organized are they on the ground?
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>> reporter: well, we're no longer in benghazi, anderson. the opposition, it depends on where you are. for instance in benghazi, in the courthouse, which is the nerve center for the opposition, you see an amazing array of people. lawyers, judges, human rights activists, businessmen who have all sort of come together to try to organize the new libya. but what you're seeing increasingly is also figures from the old regime, the gadhafi regime, the former justice minister, the former interior minister. people from the security services who have defected and there's a palpable tension between the people who previously had nothing to do with politics, who just stayed in their careers, in their fields, and these people from the gadhafi regime. there's some real tensions between them, some real
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distrust. in the field, when you're talking to the guys with the guns, the fighters, an odd collection of people. a lot of people who have been in the military before, a lot of libyans who have come back. i met a man from norway who has dual citizenship who's joined the fight. because he feels it's his duty to come back. so the opposition is a real hodgepodge of people who it's hard to see at this point how they're all going to get along in a single government. but they're certainly making an effort. >> i want to read you what hillary clinton said. she said i think it's important to recognize there's a great deal of uncertainty about the opportunism of people claiming to be leaders right now. you're hearing from your sources in libya that tomorrow a transitional national council is going to be named. what does that mean? >> i think what it means is they already agreed on who should be
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the head of this transitional -- national transitional council and the person assisting him. these are two names, the former justice minister, and the second person is the second man. and tomorrow they try to name some of them, because the total number of this council is around 30 people. ten of them are from tripoli. they will not be mentioned because due to -- for their security and safety, because they are in that region. and the rest are from benghazi, i believe, and the rest are from the other parts of the country. >> so what about this tension ben was talking about between folks who haven't been involved in the government at all and these people who were very close to gadhafi for many, many years and seemed fine with whatever he did. now all of a sudden switching sides. how does that tension get
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resolved? >> i think they try to get along. i think it's very important -- the sources i talk to, some of them are advising the council, feel that everybody should be included. everything should be inclusive, because all the figures, regardless if they came late or early, all of them they have to find a way to get together to form this council and to form a new representative government that is transitional. this is a council, it's not a government. but it's a step toward future government in libya where once it's all liberated. there is a tension. some as ben said, that they just feel that who came late and they have some blood on their hands. some are concerned about that. but the people that you mentioned, including the former justice minister, he's been somebody who is very well
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respected for a while in libya. >> ben wedeman, stay safe. thank you for joining us. a lot more happening around the country and world, including new hope for a retired fbi agent who disappeared in iran four years ago. and the miracle puppy declared dead, came back to life. incredible details, next. [ female announcer ] imagine the possibilities with stelara®.
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let's get the latest on some of the other stories we're following. isha sesay has a "360" news and business bulletin. isha? the u.s. government says there is new evidence that former fbi agent robert levinson is alive and being held in southwest asia. he disappeared during a business trip to iran in 2007. a senior diplomatic official said a fresh round of discussions between the u.s. and iran is underway. german authorities say the man accused in yesterday's deadly shooting of two american troops in frankfurt was a recently radicalized muslim. he was apparently influenced by radical islamist websites. officials say the 21-year-old suspect claims to have acted alone. in wisconsin, police are searching for the owner of dozens of rounds of live ammunition found today outside the state capital building. meantime, a judge has ruled that demonstrators may no longer sleep inside the capital.
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where they've been camping out for three weeks to protest a controversial budget repair bill. u.s. stocks had their best day in three months, fueled by a strong unemployment claims report and a modest drop in energy prices. the dow added 191 points. anderson, meet wally, aka miracle dog. the miracle is, wally and his litter mates were left outside an oklahoma animal shelter where they were euthanized, then put in a dumpster. as you can see, 3-month-old wally is obviously a survivor. >> wow. we should point out the wisconsin story, we call it a budget repair bill. certainly the folks protesting say this has nothing to do with the budget. they say this is about union busting and trying to destroy collective bargaining rights. >> important point. coming up, the vicious murder of a wealthy african-american land owner in arkansas. 57 years later, the murder case is still cold, but there is a new break in the case and what happened to his hundreds of acres of land, which his family
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tonight in our series only cold cases, the case of isidore banks. he was viciously murdered almost 60 years ago in arkansas. there's a new break in the case of what happened to his land. gary tuchman reports. >> reporter: what happened to isidore banks on his last day of life is unspeakable. what's happened to his family since, unbearable. jim banks was 11 years old when
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his father died in 1954. >> it was a nightmare at the time. it was an absolute nightmare. >> reporter: isidore banks was a pillar of the black community. when he was growing up here in arkansas, the town did not have electricity. but as a young man in the '20s, he helped bring electricity to the town. he was one of the wealthiest, if not the wealthiest black land owner in an area with a sinister history of racial tension. in june of 1954, banks' picture appeared in a newspaper. but the store kri that accompanied it was not about his professional successes. he had been reported missing. a few days after isidore banks disappeared, his lifeless body was found in this desolate area just outside of town, hanging from a tree. an empty gasoline can was found nearby. the gas had been used to douse his body, burning him beyond recognition. what was done to him was cruel,
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sadistic, and unpunished. jim banks and his mother found out his father was dead when a relative came to their door. >> and my mom says, where is he? and my uncle norman said, he's dead. and my mother collapsed. >> reporter: the black community was frightened. the local black owned newspaper called it a hideous crime. the gruesome work of fiends. pictures of the murder scene was displayed. there was speculation the murderers were white, jealous of his success, or perhaps angry by his extra mare call affairs. in over 50 years, there's never been a serious suspect. 90-year-old julian fogleman's late brother was one of the county prosecutors at the time of the murder. >> i don't recall any discussion with him about it. >> reporter: but julian was aware of the case, too.
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at the time he was the city attorney in marion, arkansas. if this was a white man killed, found burned and on a tree, do you think the police would have worked harder back then to find the perpetrator? >> of course that would be speculation, but i think the tenner of the times, yes, it's possible. >> reporter: after his death, isidore banks' family members tried to take claim of the hundreds of acres of land they say he owned. but authorities declared he owned nothing. what happened to the land? >> we just don't know. and all records have been destroyed. >> reporter: cnn has obtained records from the arkansas state land commission that show he told a small amount of land before he died. but now nearly six decades after his death, investigators say they have proof he obed land when he died. that's the discovery of a cold case project in northeastern university's law school. jim banks thinks for all these years authorities have purposely hidden the truth.
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you believe there's an active conspiracy to keep the records from your family? >> absolutely. i believe that with all my heart. >> reporter: this past spring, a ceremony was held in marion to honor isidore banks' military service during world war i. and now, she's helping to organize a new push to get justice for her grandfather. >> i just don't know how a human being can be so horrible to another human being. i ask you how would you feel if it was your -- your grandfather? >> reporter: the fbi says it is now reviewing cold cases from the civil rights era, include thing one. >> and as recently as the last couple of weeks, we continue to ge

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